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@criminalized society
Wait the three years. them get fingerprinted. The conditional discharge will be gone. Then apply to have the other charge removed.
Once they are both gone, you will never need a waiver. Ever.
Conditional discharges are misunderstood but filing for a waiver would be a big mistake.
@criminalized Society 1320, Hi, I know you didn't ask for my advise, but here goes, LOL, John is correct, the c. discharge will automatically be purged from CPIC, 3 years from sentence date, you can apply for the file destruction for the other conviction, depending on what Police arrested you. For example I know Edmonton Police has waiting times for certain convictions before you can apply for a file destruction, Regina Police on the other hand does not have any waiting time. Keep in mind the RCMP can and will refuse a file destruction request if it is serious and not enough time has passed. Yes, a file destruction process can take up to 1 year. The RCMP do not like granting them, as it does remove information from CPIC. 911 calls are not entered into CPIC, but are entered in the local police computer system. Now, to be honest, I don't think your "other" charge was withdrawn, based on the info you are providing, it is a bit contradictory, not being rude, just want to clarify, so you are getting the best advise...you state "other charge was withdrawn following a plea deal, a few months probation, no jail time and a small fine." Withdrawn charges are just that, there is no sentence given to them. However, a charge can be withdrawn and a plea down to a "Peace Bond" can happen. However, fines are not usually associated to a Peace Bond. Can you please clarify what your original charge was and what your plea deal was in order to receive probation and a fine. Probation and fines tell me you have an existing criminal record for that charge. You would have received probation for the Conditional Discharge, are you thinking of that? Also USA Customs will seriously consider what your original charge was even though you were not convicted of it..Have you done a criminal record check lately to see what is showing? Do you have court documents?
@Michele
I was arrested initially under the mischief charge under 5000$. I was released on a promise to appear. They didn't even take me to the station. They took my fingerprints on the spot. She made false allegations that I destroyed something of hers. I had found something on my property and admitted to the no good cop that I threw it away, it was some clothes of hers. Following the investigation, they later charged me with the second offence of intimidation. It was a summary offence as well. I had no idea about the second charge. They had nothing better to do than to pick a random charge out of the criminal code. Everyday was constant harrassment and threats from her. I should have called the police first or just moved away. I was thinking about moving costs and since I was a man, they wouldn't believe me.
Following a few months, my lawyer me to show up in court, to plead guilty to the mischief charge as the prosecutor was hard headed and wouldn't drop it. My belief is that crazy lady didn't want to drop the case because she wanted compensation. However, the intimidation charge was dropped because of lack of evidence. This is how I was made aware of my second charge. My punishment for throwing away something on my own property was 1 year probation and paying her a small amount for her losses. I was given a conditional discharge. I should have fought the charge and gotten a better lawyer but I was working many hours and going to university. I had no time to waste in court for silly things because of some nutcase. In the end, they made a criminal out of me and I am part of a stupid system because of some stupid cops lacked judgement.
Telling someone to stay away from me is now considered a crime and can get you an intimidation charge. This is what my lawyer told me.
I have a job in my field and I am a member of a professional order. The order knows about my situation but they said it doesn't interfere with my professional activities as the charges were bogus. My employer doesn't know, I got the job before graduating, and I haven't had a criminal background check ever since my arrest. I have kept the same job and haven't looked for other jobs as I fear that my record will stop me from getting those jobs. In the end, it only takes one individual to ruin your life on silly charges because of stupid judgement from a no good cop.
The discharge should be removed in a few months. However ever since my sentencing, she called the cops several times. I was lucky in a way that I wasn't home every time they showed up and they started considering that the woman suffers from psychosis. She wanted more but got a taste of her own medicine. She moved away and let me be. That intimidation charge is considered a crime of violence so a file destruction may not remove it. The RCMP will probably refuse it from what you told me.
So my guess is that I should apply for the US waiver and hope for a September letter in the future. I was never convicted of anything under canadian law. I was found guilty of mischief under which is a summary offence here in Canada. It is not indictable in the US and may or may not be considered a CIMT. US immigration law states that pleading guilty to only one offence with a maximum term of less than six months imprisonment does not make someone inadmissible to the US. I suppose this will change under Trump anytime soon.
There are probably thousands of people like me out there. It takes the goodwill of the politicians to change the laws in place and to stop the criminilization of individuals on bogus charges. However, society is shifting towards the radical right so I don't see any changes in the meantime.
Hi, do you mind me asking which police this was? Okay, thanks for clarification, the Intimidate charge was withdrawn and the 1 year probation and fine was for the C. discharge. To be honest I am not familiar with an "Intimidation" charge, as I have rarely seen it..but am assuming it is similar to a harassment charge, and you did mention the court proceeded by summarily, which is less concerning than Indictable. It will depend on the personal letter and court documents you submit with your file destruction at the time whether the RCMP will deny. I cannot say 100% unless I reviewed these, but wanted you to be aware, that like any application, there is no 100%. If you were a walk in client of mine, I would suggest the following before you apply for a waiver...and that would be to do a simple fingerprint criminal record check marked for a "Pardon". Now before you get excited...LOL..I know that you do not need a Pardon, however, this is the best criminal record check to do, as it shows everything (almost ) that is under your criminal history, including withdrawn, dismissed, peace bonds, ect..and the C. discharge if it is under the 3 years. This way you know exactly what is showing up under your name. I would review this and then provide you options that might be best for you, such as a file destruction, waiver application, ect...If you decide to do a file destruction in the future, you will need these fingerprints results anyway, so it is not a waste of money. Again, this is if you were my client, this is where I would start and go from there.
Sorry, I mean no 100% guarantee for any application.
Thanks for the advice. Following my arrest, I took an interest in reading about the law.
Intimidation is the old charge of harrassment before it was added in the criminal code as a separate crime from my understanding. Nowadays, people get charged with harrassment but cops will charge people with intimidation if there is lack of evidence. It is a redundant charge and should be removed from the criminal code however it is morphing into a separate charge for people who bully others, mostly applied on teenagers. We are charging kids now under this adding to the list of criminalized kids and teenagers.
I am a man, so I must be a dangerous criminal mastermind seeking to bully a helpless woman who won't stop harassing me and trying to vandalize my property because I decline her advances. Hopefully, she's gone and I don't have to see her face again even though she ruined part of my life.
Anybody who files a complaint to the police stating that they feel threatened by someone is enough for the police to charge someone with intimidation. It is very hard to prove but cops don't care and let the court decide if the accused is innocent or guilty. Cops nowadays lack judgement and it is awful that Canada is slowly turning into the US on this matter. Cops will fingerprint the accused and treat him as a criminal even if he is innocent for the rest of his life.
I rather not state which police force charged me but I read on their website that dropped charges or acquittals do not have a waiting time for file destructions. You must however wait the full 3 years for a conditional discharge. This means once the discharge is complete, someone can request for one. They seem to indicate on their website that all file destructions are accepted for a small fee but only the fingerprints are destroyed. Fingerprints have an FPS number that is registered on CPIC. My guess is once this # is removed, all the charges are gone from CPIC. However, we don't really know if the information is truly removed. Obviously nobody will tell. Waivers are a lucrative business for the US government.
I understand that there are 4 levels on CPIC. Level 1 is a basic search revealing the existence of a criminal record (convictions) if a pardon is not obtained. Level 2 reveals pending charges. Level 3 reveals conditional or absolute discharges still in force + all charges regardless of disposition. Level 4 reveals all info regarding a person's criminal background. What we call a vulnerable sector.
My understanding is that once they get you, you are in that system forever. One could file for a request to destroy all info under the Privacy Act or what I call Access to Public Information Law but my feeling is these requests get denied.
I am pretty sure US border patrol has access to all levels of CPIC. I would start with the file destruction first as you suggest but I don't have high hopes. If denied, I can apply for a US waiver hoping for a September Letter to the mischief charge. This is were Ken Scott can come in handy I suppose.
On another note it seems to me, cops like to charge people nowadays on bogus matters and take them to court to waste valuable tax payers money. Money will spend don't you think?
Intimidation is a charge that was inherited under the old british criminal code once Canada became a colony and then an independent nation. Australia and New Zealand seem to treat it as harrassment. Most US states treat intimadation as coercion, meaning an individual forcing someone to do an act they don't want to do. It is probably a CIMT, a crime of moral turpitude, given that harrassment is one.
I have a similar but slightly different take on your case. I agree that if you wait for the appropriate time and your record will disappear. This is a very good thing and could save you the expense of the waiver. We can get a September Letter for your convictions and offences if needed right now...So this will not be an issue but I recommend that you do not apply at all right now. Now I can tell you the only 1 thing that may bite you....
The scenario is that you crossed the border in 2022 and you get asked if you have ever been arrested/charged and you say no. They find out for whatever kind of reason about the prior offence(s)and then state that technically you have just committed a 6c Misrepresentation offence for stating you have never been arrested(Conditional Discharge or not). This will make you inadmissible under 212(a)(6)(C)(i) Material Misrepresentation / Fraud. This in itself is a lifetime ban. So it would not be the offences as much but more so the 6c.
Now having said that...there is a 98% chance you will not have to do waivers for the rest of your life since your offences right now(based upon what you have said here), technically can be shown that you are actually not inadmissible to the USA.
I suggest that you let your offences disappear first. Maybe John or Michelle can facilitate or assist in this action. Then after they disappear, you contact me and we will go over the specifics regarding your future border crossing event and explain why they are doing such and asking such. We may even have you come to the office and we can show you in their manuals. We can also show you how you will not have to do waivers in the future.
Again, I suggest that you do not file for any waivers whatsoever right now and just wait for everything to disappear. Get a copy of your court file right now and keep it in your safe. Your info should be purged after the allotted time has gone by anyway. Then you will do your future crossing and CBP may or may not ask you if you have been charged. You will have to say yes of course and can state the specific conviction. If they foolishly then say that you need a waiver, then you politely leave and you contact us again. We will show in our presentation why you are not inadmissible and they will then send you the September Letter in the mail.
In this way, they cannot get you on 6c because you have honestly declared everything. They won't be able to get you under 2a either. So you will not have to get waivers for either category and you should be good for life.
Having said that...this would not apply if you commit another offence...An example is that you shove a border guard in 2023 or have admitted to smoking a joint in 1988. Then the process would be started again.
Moral of the story is that if you stay offence free in the future, you will not have to do any waivers and this will save you a lot of money.
We have had discussions before about levels of CPIC etc. You are overthinking this. Your letting your bitterness about the charge interfere with what you actually need to do.
Now remember, I am in the business of making money through Pardons/File destruction/Waivers. So if I am giving you advice AGAINST my profit motive, its much different advice than something which WILL make me money, which you have every right to think is in my best interest.
Homeland Security wants you to think they have the ability to see everything at all times. This helps them. I have befriended many Homeland Security officers, Rugby and MMA made it possible for me to become close friends, so I have a very clear understanding of what they CAN see, and what they cannot.
On CPIC right now it says you have a conditional discharge and a withdrawn charge.
When the three years are up, you MUST be fingerprinted for a Pardon. This will PROMPT the RCMP to SEE the Discharge and remove it. It is not removed automatically....unless you are fingerprinted.
Once the fingerprints are done, they will ONLY show the withdrawn charge. You apply to that police force to get it removed. You cannot apply to the RCMP, and they will not remove it unless the police force who arrested you consents.
1.) If you are successful, you do another set of fingerprints and it will show nothing at all.
No waiver needed, case closed.
2.) If you are unsuccessful, still no waiver needed, you only have a withdrawn charge...the discharge is gone forever.
Michelle is saying the same thing in a different way. DO NOT ever reveal the discharge to Homeland Security or anyone else once its gone. It is COMPLETELY gone.
As for what happened to you, as frustrating as it is, as unfair as it is, people have it worse. I get a lot of clients through social services and the sheer discrepancy between sentences for white people vs black people is astounding. I once did a study for social services taking same offences, within a year of each other, comparing black men and women and white men and women, and it was incredible how diverse they were.
One graphic example were two women caught smuggling cocaine from Jamaica.
White woman, 21, conditional sentence (she did some weekends) , 3 years probation, community service.
Black woman, 5 years PRISON, she was a mother and 26 years old. They threatened her with 10 years.
This is in Toronto, so obviously things can be regional. Both convicted in 2001.
Miscarriage of justice happens. Luckily in Canada we rarely sentence people to prison, and we have pardons. We are the only country in the world with this system. I am very proud to be Canadian when I talk about our justice system, as imperfect as it is.
I think we are all essentially saying that once it disappears...he is essentially good to go. There is only 1 small area of uncertainty...He will have to make 100% sure that it has disappeared so that he does not fall victim to 6c.
The actual offence he has now is essentially not as bad...So whoever does his pardon/purge has to make damn sure that it is gone. I still say that he should not file for any waivers right now. He should let everything disappear by however it will happen.
It should not happen to him, but it does say in the code that a person can make themselves inadmissible by voluntarily admitting to committing the acts of a relevant criminal offence. Plus by law, we cannot tell him to not disclose anything to CBP since that could fall under 18 USC violation.
An example is let's say that he smoked a joint last night and there is absolutely no record of it. He came to our office to discuss his future border crossing event. I cannot tell him not to disclose this activity to CBP if they asked this question...
However....I can explain to him that his prior activity is known only to himself and what the repercussions will be if he decides to voluntarily admit to it...Meaning that he will have to get waivers for life. So he then decides what is the best course of action based on his "own internal feelings and decision."
If he feels he wants to admit it and do waivers for the rest of his life, then that is his "conscious decision." If he "decides" that he will not disclose it, then he will not have to do waivers since there is no evidence or admission of a relevant event. Again, the choice is his and we only explain the parameters to people and let them decide their own course of action.
In his case though... his offences(based on what he says here), may not make him inadmissible anyway. His case is unique in that it is involving alleged Harassment by a female. He has to make sure that his case does not slide into the DomesticViolence category since CBP does not like this at all. I personally do not think that he committed the offence(s) as I know how often women lie in general. The bad part is that this is the system in place right now but we can be successful against it.
I think his defence should be in 4 layers with the end goal of not having to need a waiver in the future:
The first layer is someone has to help him make this completely disappear. I am thinking Michelle since she previously worked for Edmonton PD, and has literally seen Canadian law enforcement databases on the computer screen.
The 2nd layer is that before he crosses, he has to have the knowledge and confidence beforehand that it is gone. John can check and give him a 2nd independent verification that it is cleared in the system. This will reassure him that it is gone.
The 3rd layer is he has to be prepared if CBP decides to throw him a curve ball and ask him if he has ever been arrested at any point in his life(whether they see the offence or not). If he says no and IF...I MEAN IF..they find out that he has, then that is a guaranteed 6c violation...and he will get a lifetime ban for the Misrep as opposed to the actual offence. If he says yes and they send him home, then they cannot get him for 6c(See 4th layer). A lot of this is dependent on if he is fully purged from the system. The wild card here is that CBP(or any US Federal or local Law Enforcement officer) can legally lie to people. Specifically, CBP can lie to him and say that they see something...under the guise of trying to get him to voluntarily admit to something in a sworn statement. My team can go over his first border crossing event with him(prior to him entering) and give him even more confidence by showing him how this is done. Also, can get him prepared in case CBP throws the curveball. Now if they don't ask and he admits to nothing...then he is good to go and will not have to proceed to the 4th layer of defence. He cannot just go by believing that the system is purged(even if it is cleared). He needs to be prepared for all possible scenarios.
The 4th layer is him admitting yes and us showing how his offences do not make him admissible...and he is good for life with a September Letter(This is his last line of defence).
So once he is done, he will have 4 layers of defence at his disposal and he will save thousands of dollars over a lifetime by not needing an unnecessary waiver.
Good point about misrepresentation.
And this probably won't apply to most of us here, but if you ever find yourself in a position to get a green card in the future, the green card application would have some sort of catch all questions such as, 'Have you ever lied to border agents to gain immigration benefits?', or 'Have you ever committed offenses for which you have not been arrested/charged/cited/convicted/etc?'.
If you smoked pot but never got caught, and then lied to the border officer about it, then the border guy let you in. And then later on, you married an American and tried to get sponsored, you would be in a dilemma on how to answer these questions.
Denationalization have happened for people who did not answer these catch-all questions 'truthfully', and I find it to be crazy. In contrast, Canadian permanent resident and citizenship applications would only ask for charges and convictions, which is more reasonable.
Hi all, yes, I think we are basically in agreement of the same outcome, as I stated, my first step would be to request a fingerprint criminal record check marked for a "Pardon / Record Suspension" and see what exactly is showing and then move forward with a file destruction to remove the "withdrawn" charge. Then decide what to do about a Waiver. I always start with fingerprints - Memory is flawed - Lawyer's advise is bad - Understanding of how things should have gone and did go in court can be confused and be too different things - many times there are surprises on the criminal record check.
#1329 you are definitely 100% correct. You also know that certain criminal convictions could make it difficult to get a Greencard too in the future. This is one reason why we try to get people out of unnecessary waivers since it could hamper a future Greencard sponsorship application.
Misrepresentation is a nasty thing with CBP, so I would like to make sure that he does not fall into that trap in the future...This was why I was thinking of the 4 layers of defence for him will protect him.
#1330 Yes the prints is definitely a great first step. Could you get his conviction purged faster? I do think though that the waiver part should be his last level of defence since we have gotten people with his offences a lifetime clearance before. I am thinking that would be a strategic move that can be implemented as a last resort. What would hurt him is if he said the wrong thing and the guard tricked him into mistakenly saying that he placed the girl in fear of harm(which I don't think he did), and it was documented on a sworn statement. Then you are on that slippery slope of Domestic Violence which is not in his best interest.
I actually would like to see the specific statute number of the conviction(s) and read the narrative in the court file. I think we could for sure turn it around. It is harder for them to argue against a September Letter since the ARO has already done their analysis and determined that the person is not inadmissible for the specific offence. The thing is that we do the same analysis that they do.
He is in a very good position right now, and I would hate for him to lose it.
usentrywaiverservices.com
@1331, K. Scott, the file destruction usually takes 1 year, however, I just had one that took 5 months from beginning to end. So it is possible, but need to see those court documents also.
#1332 Well if you see them, please check the statute number. I think he is in a very good position right now.
Hi all,
Thanks for the advice. I will wait a few more months till the discharge gets purged and do fingerprints for a pardon to make sure it is completely removed. I don't need a pardon so I don't know how to go about that.
As for the withdrawn charge, I am hoping that the arresting police force will accept to remove it from CPIC with the file destruction. I would need to contact one of you to help me submit a successful application.
If I travel to the US and they ask have I been arrested? I will say yes. I will get a copy of my court document to show the charges. If they refuse me entry, then I believe my chances of getting a September Letter are good. Before my arrest, I would travel to the US often.
@John
I traveled throughout Canada during the last few months. I realized that we live in a beautiful country with great values and amazing people. However, criminal reform is needed.
The last years have been tough for me. It's a tough pill to swallow when you get arrested on false allegations and the cops keep coming after you for ridiculous claims.
I worked hard to get an education. I stayed out of trouble all my life. I never gotten any traffic tickets spare a few parking tickets. All my hard work was shattered that night by a mentally disturbed individual. A person who should have been locked up for good. In the end, we both lost. She moved away and got nothing while I became a criminalized individual who didn't commit a crime. She was already in the system and she had nothing to lose but why attempt to ruin my chance at happiness?
I am grateful I managed to keep my job. As for the no good cop who arrested me, I only have kind words for him. I hope he got his promotion.
Serve and Protect!!!!
#1334 This is great news but I only ask that you do 1 thing BEFORE YOU CROSS OVER. Please show me what your court file says before you show it to CBP. I want to make sure it does not say something that can be used to bite you later.
Don't worry, I won't charge you a penny and you can blacken out the name if you want. Again, I just don't want you having to pay for an unnecessary waiver if you can thus avoid so.
usentrywaiverservices.com
So they decided to do a story on our headquarters town. This stuff is in our backyard literally. Not saying that these are our clients but we would have other things to worry about if we did not produce good results on our waiver cases at our Surrey HQ. Even Justin Trudeau came out to address how dangerous Surrey BC can be.
So this indirectly is also why we cannot produce non-positive results since everyone here knows everyone.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4427641/surrey-gun-gang-violence-justin-trudeau/
Yup but actually a lot of these guys would not even need #usentrywaivers. This is in our backyard literally but it does not impact us.
usentrywaiverservices.com
#1334, Hi, when you do the request for Pardon fingerprints, it is very simple, nothing to worry about, you just go to the local police or a private fingerprint location such as myself, I am partners with Sanfran Morpho, who has locations all over the world. You just go in and ask for a Pardon fingerprint criminal record check , with the results being sent to you. It is very easy..and not complicated at all. Remember I said, you don't need a Pardon, you are just requesting this "type" as it will give us full information.
#1336, K..that will be interesting, yes, I sure understand "everyone knows everyone",My business is definitely based on Referrals..I walk into Wal-mart and all the cashiers, are "Hey Fingerprint Lady", as I fingerprint soo much for Immigration...LOL..
#1334, Your C. Discharge will be removed for sure...This is from the Parole Board of Canada website about C. Discharges and A. Discharges...
If you have only received absolute or conditional discharges, you do not need to apply for a record suspension.
If you received an absolute discharge on or after July 24, 1992, the RCMP will automatically remove it from its system one year after the court decision.
If you received a conditional discharge on or after July 24, 1992, the RCMP will automatically remove it 3 years after the court decision.
If you received an absolute or conditional discharge before July 24, 1992, contact the RCMP to have the information removed (RCMP Pardon & Purge Services, P.O. Box 8885, Ottawa, ON K1G 3M8).
*The reason a person has to contact the RCMP for C. or A. Discharges before 1992, as there was a glitch in the system, and some were not automatically removed. However, I can advised that when I was at Edmonton Police, I "queried " Thousands and Thousands of names in CPIC and came across this maybe 3 times. So very rare....
#1338 This is why you definitely excel in this area and are the perfect person to help him get the Canadian part sorted out.
Heyall,
Applied and Filed application myself at Winnipeg airport 120 days ago (today)
I received a five year waiver valid for business and pleasure dated Aug 31, 2018.
I had a charge of trafficking and proceeds of crime, which was reduced to simple possession in court. I received an conditional discharge 9 years ago.
When I was asked at the border if I had been arrested, I was honest and told them the truth. That's when I became admissible. Had I not have said anything I would not need a waiver.
Nevertheless, I got it for five years and it came relativity quick.
Cheers!
